Charles Pakana (Victorian Aboriginal News)

For nearly 20 years on the 31 May, a small yet determined group of Victorians, Aboriginal and non Aboriginal veterans and non veterans, has conducted the Victorian Aboriginal Remembrance Service, a service that acknowledges the contributions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander men and women who have served and continue to serve in the Australian Defence Force. The service is the result of the efforts of the Victorian Aboriginal Remembrance Committee. And joining me on the line today is a great friend of mine, Committee co-founder, retired Flight Sergeant Sam Halim. Sam, thanks for joining me today. 

Sam

You’re most welcome

Charles

Sam, it’s generally well known that you and the late Aunty Dot Peters co-founded the Committee way back in 2006, nearly 20 years ago. What’s not so well known, though, is how you, an Egyptian born, non Aboriginal retired flight sergeant, came to be in the vanguard of this initiative. What led up to this?

Sam

Okay, see, so, going back to the time we started this, I will say that it is reconciliation to honor the Indigenous soldiers. Yep, that started in 2006. I was then the President of the Healesville Sub Branch, and Aunty Dot Peters, bless her soul, she came to me and said that for many years she has been trying to get her father, who was a soldier who died in Burma Railway Prison Camp. And the RSL refused to acknowledge that. Of course. She heard many negative comments, which I cannot actually say. And she came to me and she said, I wonder if you can help me. So I found that, just doing some research, that the Indigenous soldiers, they have been involved and contributing to our military, Australian military conflicts, peacekeeping and wars since the Boer War.

Charles

Correct.

Sam

Then when she came the following day, because I asked her to give me this 24 hours, so she came to me and I said to her, all right, Aunty Dot, I am going to get this started and I’ll do our best.

Charles

And this is just at the Healesville sub branch, though, initially.

Sam

Yes, so I was the president there. So when I started talking to my RSL committee, I found, of course, pro and against, and the head office and some high ranking officers in the RSL practically objected and they told me not to start it.

Charles

Why did I give you a reason?

Sam

We have ANZAC day that includes everybody and that’s it. So don’t restart anything. So I said so to some of them, without mentioning names, I said, okay, so what happened? If my members agree with me and the committee, and I started and I was threatened, so…

Charles

Well, hold on a sec, hold on a sec. Threatened, how? In what way?

Sam

If you start, that will destroy your committee, your business, and you’ll be in big troubles, practically. 

Charles

Goodness. 

Sam

And I’m not going to say what we had to go through. One of the very high ranking officers, this is what they said to Aunty Dot. No, black died for Australia. And very high ranking officers said, maybe they were right, Sam. And I said, you are racist and you cannot threaten me. And I came back from the Gulf War alive. And I’m going to get started. And I don’t care about your threats.

Charles

So let’s. Let’s just clarify this. So, Aunty Dot had already been to the RSL, had only received negative comments, some that you’re not prepared to say, which must be pretty bad, given what you’ve already said was said to you.

Sam

Yeah, terrible. Terrible.

Charles

She came to you. You went that you then went to senior management in the RSL and were told…

Sam

..they heard about my movement talking to my committee and about what I want to do.

Charles

Right.

Sam

What I want to start.

Charles

And then they also said, no black man has ever died in the service of Australia. Is that right?

Sam

Yeah. Not just a black man, but a black something. Yeah.

Charles

Oh, okay. So a black expletive.

Sam

And that’s what Aunty Dot got to. And she was so upset that when she heard something..

Charles

And given that her father, an Aboriginal man, died at the hands of the Japanese Burma railways.

Sam

I mean, as a prisoner. Yeah. So that is said. And the fighting for Australia and et cetera. So it’s very…So I got that started in the RSL. I convinced my committee in 2006.

Charles

Was your committee aware of the threat from the RSL?

Sam

Yes. Yes. They still went ahead, the committee back. Now, they backed me up. The majority. The majority, okay. It was kind of democratic. I’m not going to go through what they had to do. And they did lots of terrible things to myself and, of course, to Aunty Dot. 

Charles

Well, before before we go, for example, what was done. Don’t have to go through all of it, but give us a bit of an example, because this is obviously a heck of a challenge that you, Aunty Dot and the committee have gone through to get to this point, what was confronted.

Sam

So they attacked my committee and myself, and they tried to remove me from being president and so on, things like this. And that’s the nicest thing I can say of what they have done.

Charles

We’ll leave it at that, then, Sam, out of respect. That’s fine.

Sam

Yes. So what I mean is, to the extent that because of what they did, I had to expose these people, the high ranking officers and I had a website that still exists that explained what they have done.

Charles

So tell us about the first service. Where was it? How many people were there?

Sam

Okay, so the first service started with Healesville RSL and we played the didgeridoo while we playing the Ode. At 06:00 we play the Ode and we had dinner. We invited the committee and other people who supported that and we had a celebration at the RSL sub branch that was followed by a big celebration or a bigger celebration at my business restaurant, which the Shire of Yarra Ranges supported financially too. And there was Archie Roach and the Mayor and all the other dignitaries who came to the function. And Archie Roach was actually played music and sang and it was so beautiful.

Charles

So how many people actually attended, including Archie Roach and people from Yarra Rangers Council in all?

Sam

I remember it, it was one hundred and eleven because the mayor were there, some counselors.

Charles

Right.

Sam

And so, yeah, so on. So this is the first one in Century House restaurant and attended by Archie Roach. And he was singing about his mother and a white soldier grabbing the child from her arms, an Indigenous child, of course, and so on. And people were so impressed with the song and I still remember it. The following year, in 2007, I managed to convince, with the help of Aunty Dot all the way. We managed to convince the Government Minister for Aboriginal Affairs at the time to support what we are doing and we manage to organise a service at The Shrine (of Remembrance). Thats in 2007. And since that time, every year we have a service to honor the Indigenous soldiers. For the first time in the history of a military history of Australia, we managed to get these people, the forgotten soldiers, to be honored. And that is something really great. The people who are attending this service, a lot of people now they know about it. And I have managed to connect with schools and the Department of Education and a lot of students from primary to high school attending the service.

Charles

Sam, whilst from 2007 it’s been at the Shrine of Remembrance and it looks to all intents and purposes to be there with the support of the government. There have been some definite challenges to you and the committee over the years in even getting that there. And I know that you and I have had yarns and I believe what was it back in 2022 or 21? You actually paid for a lot of it out of your own pocket. So what are some of the challenges that you’re constantly facing in this?

Sam

I believe that those people who didn’t want us to start this service to honor the Indigenous soldiers, they played a hand in that, to try to stop that service. And in 2022 the department, DBC department told the committee that they don’t have the funds for the service and we should not have the service that year because I know about little bit about politics. I studied political science at Melbourne Uni. Yeah. So I, I’ve never or I don’t believe that a minister will say something like this because, for example, the minister for Aboriginal Affairs will have emergency fund, at least will be a couple of hundred thousand, of course. And of course, you know, the service is a part of my life and a part of lots of people’s lives. So I said, no way we are going to have the service and I’m going to fund it and a lot of people will help me to fund it.

Charles

So you didn’t hear from Gabrielle Williams, who was at that time the minister for First Nations and Treaty, did you? That was from other people within the Department of Premier and Cabinet, is that right?

Sam

Yeah. But it is a department that work under her. Yeah.

Charles

Okay.

Sam

So these are the people represents. They represent her.

Charles

Okay.

Sam

So whatever she says, they tell us.

Charles

So how much out of your own pocket was spent on that event in 2022? Because I remember being at that event.

Sam

The thing is, because of what happened, I decided to make it a very, very special two course meal for approximately 300 people. What I did. I got the chefs and all the workers and all of that to just have something very special and to be the best ever. So I was talking about using all the volunteers, of course, about it cost about, say about five, $6,000. But because of the volunteers and some help from the Rotary Club and others, like for even Costco, I remember Costco donating $300 and because, of course, everyone knew that I paid for it or we paid for it, the Minister, of course, came back and said, are we going to, you know, pay back that nearly a year after about nine months to a year, are we going to pay you back and for what you spent.

Charles

Did it happen or didn’t it happen? Yes or no?

Sam

It happened. It happened, but it took about nine months, twelve months.

Charles

So, Sam, 31 May 2024. How’s the service looking for this one? Do we have government buy in?

Sam

So the committee and First Peoples State Relations, members who work under the minister, we have met nearly every month and to prepare for the service, we just had a meeting yesterday and it’s looking good and, you know, we just have to work and to prepare for the service and it’s looking really good.

Charles

And we will be providing all the service information on the Victorian Aboriginal News website to accompany this interview and the transcript of this interview with retired flight Sergeant Sam Halim from the Victorian Aboriginal Remembrance Committee. Don’t forget it’s on the 31 May. Sam, It’s open to everybody to attend, I assume, isn’t it? Because it’s a public event?

Sam

Yes, it is really a great thing. It’s historic. And for me, it means a lot. And I’m really glad that people like us managed to change a dark page in our military history and honor those wonderful soldiers. Forgotten soldiers.

Charles

Sam Halim, thanks indeed for your time.

Sam

Thank you very much.