Charles Pakana (Victorian Aboriginal News):

In 2008, Professor Tom Calma released the initial Close the Gap report. This was an incredibly important document for the country because it clearly identified the gaps that existed in key areas such as education, life expectancy, health that existed between, and exist, now between First Nations people and non-First Nations Australia. Over the past year or so, an organization has come about that is bringing local government into this closing the gap scene. Now local government has been involved almost de facto as signatories to this, but the realization of that simply is very, very scant within many local governments across Victoria. Joining me now is the CEO of the Ngaweeyan Maar-oo Initiative – a Gunditjmara word, voice of and for the people, Aunty Lisa Briggs. Aunt, thanks so much indeed for joining us on the program today.

Aunty Lisa Briggs:

Thank you so much for having me.

Charles:

Aunt, let’s start off by understanding the history of Closing the Gap. So from 2008, we’re talking nearly 20 years. I could say a lot has happened, but then again, on the other hand, not a lot has happened. Just give us a bit of the history.

Aunty Lisa:

So initially back in 2006, there was a national campaign called Close the Gap that was spearheaded by Professor Tom Calma and Justin Mohamed, the former chairperson of NACCHO. And that was to largely work with government on developing reforms that we now know as the closing the gap targets.

Charles:

So what’s the history been since then? Because it really hasn’t experienced a great deal of success. Successive governments have come in stating, well, we need to do more, but not a lot has happened. I mean so many of those metrics just haven’t been met or even near met.

Aunty Lisa:

So in 2016 there was a national Close the Gap refresh, which actually looked at all of the targets and identified the key reform policy gaps that were missing. And then what had happened, in 2018 under the former Prime Minister Scott Morrison, they now have the National Closing the Gap agreement, which has been signed by him and the Coalition of Peaks Lead Convener, Pat Turner. So now what we have is a national agreement that has been signed by each jurisdiction, state and territory, to show their commitment under the national agreement about what they will do.

Charles:

But as signatories, the state and territories, they’re also signing on behalf of all the local government authorities within their areas of responsibility, aren’t they?

Aunty Lisa:

They are, to a degree. And also the Australian local government is also a signatory to the national agreement, as well as for over 20 years, which is really where. We’re 20 years of the social justice agreement, social justice report for health inequality being released, but that they have also been funded to deliver direct services against the targets of the national agreement. So for instance, maternal and child health services are largely delivered by local governments that is a direct indicator target for. And so indirectly they are signatories to the agreement because they sign and they also report against it.

Charles:

Do many local governments recognize that they are, by default, involved in this important initiative?

Aunty Lisa:

No, I think over the time what has happened is, like all workplaces, you have a change of council, you have a change of executives and of change of corporate knowledge. And so what we found through our review that we had done, that in the last 10 years, that corporate knowledge has evaporated. And so there’s this real need to go back out and re-engage with local governments about what they can do under their obligations to actually assist us to close the gap.

Charles:

So you’ve mentioned a review and I’m aware of the review that’s been going around local governments for quite a while right now. Tell us a little bit about that, but start off with a bit of a genesis story of the Ngaweeyan Maar-oo Initiative.

Aunty Lisa:

So Ny Ngaweeyan Maar-oo is the formal recognized partner with the Victorian government for the oversight and implementation of the national agreement for Close the Gap. So what that means is we work with the state government to develop the Victorian Close the Gap plan, implementation plan, that addresses both the priority reforms and there’s four, shared decision making, formal partnerships, sector strengthening transformation and data sovereignty. So under those four banners.

Charles:

Not much to cover.

Aunty Lisa:

But there’re system changes that we want government to do. So there’s a role for local government for that. And then there’s the targets themselves, which is the practice, so the service delivery element is part of it. So we have 27 members and they come from sectors such as the CEO of Victorian Aboriginal Health Service. And then we also have the governance chairs such as the Aboriginal Justice Agreement Chairs that sit on our caucus and we work with the Victorian secretaries to come to a Victorian position so that we can take to the commonwealth on what we actually see for them supporting us to do. And we also then work with the secretaries about what we can do better in Victoria.

Charles:

So let’s just look at some of the key areas where effort is needed to address the gaps. What are, say, the top three that come to mind right now?

Aunty Lisa:

So we have the highest number of child protection rates in the country. So that’s target 12. And there’s definite work that needs to do that, but it’s not in isolation of child protection. It’s a whole system issue. We have a real housing issue and we are lucky in Victoria, where we have the big housing bill that’s been funded by the Victorian State government. But what we need is that Commonwealth support under the Housing Australia Future Fund to complement the need and meet the demand as we’re a growing population, even an Aboriginal population. So I think those two are critical. The other for me would be around economic development, because there’s a real void around investment into us, and I think one of the things that local governments can do really well is they are there to do urban planning and looking at planning and infrastructure for their local communities, which brings jobs, which raises the economy for them. We need that too. So when you look at housing and then you look at stimulus and investing, here are opportunities [inaudible 00:06:40] I think that local government could be well-placed to work with us on.

Charles:

So your initiative is currently to work with those 79 local governments across Victoria, which is more than just a handful, for goodness’ sake, and they’re in all sorts of different areas. We know that Victoria is an incredibly diverse area. What are you actually seeking to achieve by way of, I think you called it an audit of the local governments with closing the gaps?

Aunty Lisa:

So what we had done is, last October we started to do a benchmarking exercise. And the benchmarking exercise was to look at local governments, how they were performing against the two targets, against the national agreement itself. The opportunity was, last October we had new council elections coming forward and under their statutory obligations, they are required to develop new strategic plans and council plans. So this is an opportunity to re-engage and re-embed the national Close the Gap agreement in all local governments and giving them real clear direction and focus on what they can do and achieve.

Charles:

What are some of the challenges you think that face local governments? Because in our yarn we had before we turned on the record button, I asked you were you dealing with the bureaucrats or the politicians and you emphasized that it was primarily the bureaucrats, like the CEO down, of course. But what are some of the key challenges that local governments you’ve seen are facing right now in achieving these measures that need to be undertaken?

Aunty Lisa:

There’s two things. There’s a real raise of awareness between Aboriginal community controlled organizations, traditional owner groups and local governments on what their roles and functions are. That’s the first one. Local governments have a real role in community, in building, and mobilizing people. So we need to leverage off that through some formalized partnerships, as part of that process and be really clear what we’re going to do joint work as part of that joint work. The other challenge is with all of the environmental factors that have hit local governments with fires and floods, it’s really put a lot of pressure on their budget lines, including COVID, and even with the rate capping, it has had a detrimental impact on them. So unless there is a new investment from the Commonwealth that supports us to do this work with local governments under the Close the Gap banner, the likelihood of us progressing is very limited.

Charles:

So you’re being realistic in this. You’re not just going out to a local government that you know is short on funds regardless because of all those factors you mentioned, that realization and that obvious need to have federal government cash injection. Do you think that ultimately that could be achieved?

Aunty Lisa:

I think, to me, it’s the most appropriate move we can make if you want to make real inroads, particularly against targets 12, 9. So 12 is child protection. We know that they need housing. Target 9 is housing and target 8 is economic development. Just with those three, that is local government nearly direct service as part of infrastructure, leveraging off what we have in Victoria from local governments, from the Commonwealth, you’re actually getting the three tiers of government working in our favor and supporting and being supported by their local constituents or regional constituents. So there’s a much more coordinated approach. So it becomes efficient and effective and you can actually see direct outcomes because of it.

Charles:

Now in the initial report that you’re putting together and reaching out to those 79 local governments, I’m intrigued to know just what was the response or the general response across all those 79 local governments. I’m asking you to sort of bundle it all together, maybe it’s fair to ask what were some of the outstanding results, pro and against?

Aunty Lisa:

So the outstanding results, I will have to say is a lot of local governments, more than 50% of them, probably 70, 80% of them. They’ve really set a standard for First Nations people in terms of minimum standards of work across their agency. So they’ve been able to embed statements of commitment, they’ve been able to embed human rights charters, they’ve been able to embed all these different things that are specifically related to Aboriginal people.

Charles:

So that includes Aboriginal employment plans, relationships, and MOUs with traditional owner groups right across the state?

Aunty Lisa:

Yep.

Charles:

70%. That’s a startling figure. I wouldn’t have expected that. That must have surprised you. Come on.

Aunty Lisa:

It did. Because you don’t always hear positive things about local government.

Charles:

No, you don’t.

Aunty Lisa:

But the thing, I think, that’s the part of the challenge is that corporate knowledge, if they’ve been embedded there for a while, it gets lost. So then the practice and activation on how to use them also gets lost. So we need to make sure there’s something that we can do to change that. So in terms of response, I’ve had great response from local governments, at CEO level, through their executive. We’ve got a couple of forums coming up soon online, like already we sent it out on Friday and we’ve got nearly 50 participants.

Charles:

Yeah, my ticket’s already booked.

Aunty Lisa:

That’s pretty impressive, I believe. Because there is a willingness to learn about this. So I haven’t seen anything whether they’re not willing to participate, but what they’re really seeking is real clear direction on things that they can achieve under their priorities. But it is really clear, and I do accept, and I do acknowledge the work that they’ve already done. There’s work still to be done, but it does need to come with new funds to do it.

Charles:

So a lot of the initiatives which you’re talking about that need to actually come into place in order to meet these obligations and start closing the gaps at a local level, as you mentioned, will require money. But if you were to be put on the spot right now, as I’m doing, and asked what are some things at a low cost level that LGAs right across the state could do to start upping their game and building more resilient First Nations communities?

Aunty Lisa:

Thank you for asking that question. And the first one that comes to mind is the Maternal and child health program. And the reason why I say that, which again is target 4, around early childhood development. If we focus our children from surviving to thriving, particularly under that banner, they turn out better citizens, less burden on the health system because they don’t then generate chronic diseases. So it’s in our best interest to ensure that we get a hundred percent of all of our kids screened through that process. The issue that we have, and there are two, the main one is we have a workforce shortage around enhanced nurses within the local government.

Charles:

I was going to bring that up actually. Education really is fundamental to all this, isn’t.

Aunty Lisa:

It absolutely is. And within the Aboriginal community controlled sector, so therefore we’re not able to meet the demand. The second one is there are no formalized agreements between the ACOs and the NCH providers, which actually looks as a shared cared model. And why I pushing that shared care model of partnership is because you leave no one behind, no one falls through the cracks. A lot of the nurses that are in the local governments, they might see the baby at birth and then at two years, there’s a lot of time between those two years. But this is where the ACO can then wrap around because it’s more likely that that family is visiting that ACO is part of their ongoing care, that the coordination is much more solid and they are going to meet their development goals.

Charles:

A lot of what you’re saying really takes me back a couple of years to the deficit model conversations that were had during the referendum campaign, and there was just so much focus on that deficit model rather than on the benefits of all these things. What are some of the key benefits, aside from what you mentioned about healthier young people and healthier adults, but what are some of the key benefits that you see arising for local communities by LGAs seeking to achieve those closing the gaps measures?

Aunty Lisa:

So one of the things that local governments are really good at is mobilization because they have the traction of their local community. And so again, under transformation, the priority reform three, there’s a section in there that talks about addressing discrimination. Now, local governments are really well-placed and do a lot of good work in this space. They really are leading where they have already got campaigns in place, but the problem that they only focus on is Harmony Day rather than trying to make it consistent throughout the whole year. So what we have asked them to do is just to leverage up, maybe put it in the newsletter as a speech every quarter, put something out, do an interview, just to level it up, and that’s something that’s not going to cost them a lot of money and they’re already doing as part of strengthening their ability.

Charles:

That’s like Reconciliation week not just being one week of the year, but being 52 flaming weeks of the year.

Aunty Lisa:

Correct.

Charles:

Absolutely. You mentioned 70 per cent, a surprising number, were very positive in providing feedback to you. Let’s just address it. What are some of the negatives that you saw in this initial stage, this initial 12 months of the project?

Aunty Lisa:

I think it was more lack of awareness, to be truthful, and their lack of understanding, not both in the national agreement itself, but also their obligation to actually participate effectively in this space. And I think, again, and then the funding issues that they experienced at the moment. So again, these are real life challenges for them. I think even with councils coming on, they have a different opinion and view depending on where you are. And so their priorities might not match the internal governance as part of the process. So there’s this tension between councils, the councilors, and then what that ongoing pathway of Close the Gap, or even just reconciliation and how they address that.

So I think there’s this tension you need to deal with, but at the end of the day, there is an obligation under the national Close the Gap agreement that majority of people are signed up to until 2031. So you can’t just dismiss it. There’s also the fact that local governments do receive funds for delivery of particular Close the Gap services. So again, councils may not be aware of this, but again, if we embed it in and entrench it in, it will always stay there and become everyday business. Just like what happened with the Equality Commissioner when she came in and she put in the new rules around gender and parity. Very same thing that we need to be seeking for as part of Close the Gap.

Charles:

Let me challenge you a little bit, Aunt. You mentioned this obligation on the part of councils to meet these requirements and actually spend the money they’re gaining in those correct areas. But the fact that you are building community plans or you’re hoping for these to be developed in community plans, by default, they typically go to the councilors themselves to be approved. It’s not just the bureaucrats who append them and approve them. It’s got to go through the chain of command. What are some of the key challenges that you see facing a lot of these more progressive local governments that are seeking to bring about changes in these areas?

Aunty Lisa:

I think, and we have heard a couple of them, and they’re largely in metropolitan Melbourne.

Charles:

No names, no [inaudible 00:17:59].

Aunty Lisa:

I won’t say who they are, but they are in Metro. So I think when you’ve got different views of opinions on what the priorities are, there’s still a need for us Ngaweeyan Maar-oo, to work with the Victorian government about how we put in those appropriate legislative changes or guidances or reforms, whatever we need to call them, to ensure that local governments still provide the work that’s required for their constituents. Because whether you’re black, white or brindle, local government is still responsible to respond to the local needs of that community. That’s actually within the legislation.

Charles:

Yes, absolutely.

Aunty Lisa:

And so sometimes you just need to kindly remind the Councillors that this is actually part of their requirements, which is why I go, it’s a statutory obligation for them to do so. It’s just that we don’t challenge them enough on this as constituents because we are the ones, the voters, that bring them in.

Charles:

What do you see that Ngaweeyan Maar-oo can actually do to support these local governments that are looking to bring about these much needed changes? I know you’re doing a report, you’ve been doing an audit, you’re having online sessions as you mentioned before, but what can you do to support these governments, many of whom are pulling their hair out because they’re just being held back by some rather dubious Councillors?

Aunty Lisa:

What I think our greatest role is, is holding their hands to some degree and arming them and empowering them, but not also empowering them, empowering the Aboriginal advisory group members, empowering the Aboriginal community so that when councils actually have open council meetings, you can actually hold them to task on how you’re meeting your needs as an Aboriginal person. So really, what we’re trying to do is empower our collective shared way of working so that we’re going down the same pathway to get the same outcomes that we always want as part of Close the Gap. You said to me before, what is the other value or challenge that we have with local government?

Well, I don’t know if everyone knows this, but the Federation of Traditional Owners, they actually did a report, an economic report for Victoria, and it shows that we contribute annually every year. The one percent of Aboriginal people in Victoria contribute $600 million a year.

Charles:

Good Lord.

Aunty Lisa:

Now to an LGA, that type of dollars can either keep the doors open or close them. So we add value. So when we’ve got to shift their mindset that we’re not a deficit, we’re actually of value and we can contribute, and this is how we contribute, but we can’t hide this information. We must share this information, and this is how you get changed by empowering them with the information, setting them up with the right partnerships at the local level, so it’s place-based, and it’s actually working in unison. If there was just one thing that we changed and developed like an Aboriginal urban plan, a lot of these things would align because there’s a lot of funding out there already, whether it’s across all governments that actually assist with infrastructure, assist with growth, development, education. It’s about bringing that coordination and making it really live and present within their area.

Charles:

What’s the next stage of action for Ngaweeyan Maar-oo?

Aunty Lisa:

So we will bring together all of the local councils with MAV. So we have been working with them very closely on this.

Charles:

That’s the Municipal Association of Victoria, which for those of you who may not know, is the Peak body for all local governments across the state.

Aunty Lisa:

Thank you. And we’ve also working with the secretary and deputy secretary at the Department of Government Services, which is a role in overseeing local governments as part of that process. So we are trying to, again, work with the three tiers of government as part of Close the Gap, not just leaving it to the Commonwealth, not just leaving it to the state, but also now getting the traction and mobility with local government to improve it.

Charles:

So when do you think you might have a report ready to send through to the state and the federal?

Aunty Lisa:

Probably December.

Charles:

So I’ll say to my audience right now, expect and interview with Aunty Lisa Briggs in the next few months based on that report, we’ll get hold of that report. We’ll have a look at it and we’ll start speaking about some specifics with Aunty Lisa Briggs. Aunty Lisa, thank you so much indeed for your time today.

Aunty Lisa:

Thank you so much for having me.