Charles Pakana: As Victoria moves forward with historic treaty negotiations, ensuring that the next generation has a direct structural seat at the table is vital for shaping long-term self-determination. Today on the program, we’re exploring the multi-generational future of the Victorian Treaty process with Tarni Morris and Levi Power – two Assembly members who are leading the crucial Youth Voice Initiative within the First Peoples’ Assembly of Victoria. To both of you, welcome and thanks for joining us on the program.

Tarni, we’ll start with you. Treaty is often described as a once-in-a-generation or even multi-generational journey. How do you make a massive long-term legal and political process feel immediate, relevant, and urgent to a young person in Victoria right now?

Tarni Morris: I think the important thing is for the people that have come … us, who’ve been fighting for the recognition and the basic sovereign rights of our people, and that’s been the main focus of getting to this point. And now it’s kind of once we’re here, it’s like what does that mean next and what does that mean right now? In particular for young people, our world is working at such a fast pace. We’ve social media, that’s where we get majority of our news. We can connect with someone from the other side of the world in seconds. So, it’s about bringing young people into the space and hearing exactly what does Treaty mean for them and what we’ve heard over the last few years in particular, it is that governmental and institutional change. Like that visible, clear recognition, but also changing in how we interact with the world in the day-to-day life, not just as a token.

Charles: I’m aware that you were both community engagement officers. Levi, you were a community engagement officer up until your election for Assembly 2.0 in 2023. What have you seen by way of changing in attitudes within youth in the acceptance of this Treaty process in Victoria?

Levi Power: Yeah, it’s absolutely been a journey, that’s for sure. When I think of it just broadly, just in general, our community, it’s been a real build-up to this point. Not just particularly for youth, but just in general, our community, it’s taken a while to build up the momentum and drag everyone along the journey. And yeah, definitely youth have been a part of that, and there’s still a lot of work to do. It certainly has grown with the efforts of youth forums along the way, lots of youth surveys, and over the last 12 to 24 months, I think there’s been a really strong focus on increasing youth participation, but we still want to continue to strengthen that. 

But I think it’s just reflective of the broader community, really. Like, this has been pretty new for a lot of people. When I started in the engagement space, it was, you know, we probably had 1,000 enrollees at the time on our electoral, 1,000 to 1,500. That’s significantly grown, and the youth have been really active in that. You know, when I think of our population, you know, our population is a young population. You know, 50% of Indigenous Victorians are under 25 years old. So, we really need to put the focus into that area, and that’s something, and a big reason why we’re really keen to get involved in this work and make sure that young people are shaping this work going into the future.

Charles: Tarni, you’ve also been an engagement officer, a community engagement officer. What are some of the challenges that you’ve seen when it comes to actually engaging with First Nations youth in Victoria and getting them to actually be excited about the entire Treaty process?

Tarni: I think the key when engaging with young people is meeting them where they’re at.

Charles: Yeah.

Tarni: And when they speak to us and saying, “Where is it going to go?” So, when they’re saying, “Well, we can tell you this, but we’ve been..feels like we’ve been yelling into the void our whole lives. Like, what’s difference between me telling you this and then what I’ve been saying for the last few years?” 

So, it’s that purposeful engagement with our young people and building their trust and that connection to coming back time and time again, not just popping into youth group once and then not seeing them again for two to three years. It’s coming and showing up and being that physical presence, so then they can trust you. And then they tell you their true aspirations, because they trust you with their futures and their dreams. And that’s such an important thing that Levi and me have taken on in this role, is that we’re holding their future and their aspirations, and we’re taking that information and how do we guard and take care of that in this next stage of Treaty.

Charles: You’re talking a bit about trust there and trust in the system. I’m interested to hear from both of you on what impact that you may have seen that the Referendum results of 2023 had, because a lot of young Aboriginal people, this was one of their first experiences in getting a kick in the head, essentially, from the rest of the country. I’m just interested to hear some of the thoughts or reflections that you may have heard from the communities. Levi, I’ll pass to you first.

Levi: From what I’ve seen, there’s been a real, you know, youth movement throughout the referendum. I think it really sparked a lot of activism in our young people, you know? It was a lot of young people getting part of that movement, and what it showed me is that our young people are ready to lead. They’re not sitting back waiting for people to do anything for them. 

They’re willing to get in, lead, and that’s only reflected in the Assembly as well. We have good representation in our current Assembly that are young, and we see our co-chairs are relatively young people, and that’s just goes to show, like, our young people are ready to step up, and they’re not afraid to step up. So, what the things like Referendum did, it really fueled the fire. Our old people have fought for a long time, and a lot of them are getting on, and many are not here with us anymore. So, that’s always been passed down to us, that we need to continue that legacy and carry the flame forward.

Charles: And Tarni, from your perspective?

Tarni: There were so many things going on around the world at that time.

Charles: Yeah.

Tarni: And so much global politics. And then it was like it was at our front door, and that recognition, “Do you feel like your voice deserves to be heard?” And for young people, it was like, “Yes, I’m here. I deserve to be heard. Listen to me.” And when you got that rejection, it was kind of like, “Well, if you’re not going to listen, I’m going to make you listen.” 

And kind of that next stage of activism and realizing that it’s not just up to our old people. Like, we have to take charge and ownership of this space. And I was working in the engagement team during that time, and it was tough, and our mob was scared and stressed, but to then still sign the first Treaty in the country after backing that, I think it showed for our young people, particularly in Victoria, that we can still do what we got to do. Like, that “no” wasn’t just a “no” or a stopping. That we can still do things, and you can still advocate and you can still push.

Charles: So, what about how it plays out in the Assembly now and into the future? What’s the youth voice or the youth initiative, what’s it actually going to look like? And Tarni, I want to stick with you on this one, then we’ll pass to Levi.

Tarni: It is doing that purposeful engagement that I talked about before. What can we also give to them, and what are they getting from giving this guidance and information? We can’t just go out to young people and say, “Hey, tell us what you want and give it to us, and then we’ll take it and then bugger off and not hear from us again.”

Charles: You’ve got to feed back to them, haven’t you?

Tarni: Yeah, and they’re the people on the ground. They’re experiencing the world in a whole different world from us. Like, I’m only 25, and I talk to my youngest sister girls that are in high school now, and I’m like, “You are in a whole different world from me.” And there’s like a less than 10-year age gap. So, it’s acknowledging that difference, but the different perspectives that they have and bringing that in. And the cultural knowledge that these young people have, because if you think about our generations from above, like my pop, he wasn’t able to practice culture.

Charles: Yeah.

Tarni: He didn’t even get to finish primary school. And then my mum was able to finish school, she went and did an accounting degree, which is an amazing achievement. And then for me, and that generational shift and that cultural knowledge that I’m allowed to speak language and learn it, and been dancing since I was young, while the generations before me weren’t. So, we have this whole young generation that have had culture accessible to them and taking that on. And how do we bring that cultural modern governance into our space, so then we make sure that Treaty is set up for that multi-generation.

Charles: Levi, I just want to stick with how the youth voice and the youth initiative and the youth presence is established within the Assembly and Gellung Waarl as a whole. What are some of the, I suppose, the tangible outcomes that young people should be looking for in this organisation?

Levi: Yeah, so firstly, I think back to last iteration where we established a formal Youth Voice conveners with Jordie Edwards and Alice Pepper, who put their hand up and led a lot of the work last term to get us to where we are now. And that was spending a lot of time speaking with young people across the state, getting their thoughts, ideas, aspirations. And we took that, and what we heard loud and clear is that, and we all know this and Tarni touched on it, this is about doing things our way and what we know works best for our communities. And a big part of that is having elders help guide us and having young people part of decisions that affect their futures. 

So, Tarni and I, you know, the next iteration came around, we put our hands up for that election, and I think I speak for both of us, so grateful that the other members put their faith in us to lead this work for the next four years. 

And what that means now is we’ll continue that work. We’ll get out—we’re not going to be the members that know and be-all everything youth. It’s a responsibility on all members. We’re the conduit between the Assembly and community and our young people, but it’s how we really advocate for what young people are fighting for within our current structures and outcomes that we’re going to be talking about in the future and, you know, making sure that young people are at the core. It’s not about us speaking for community or young people; we’re the conduit, we’re the representatives of that youth voice.

So, what we want to do is, and what we’ve heard loud and clear is, we want to formalise that structure. You know, at the moment Tarni and I are leading the work, but there’s a lot for us to do, and we’re starting from the ground up. We’re setting up new structures internally about how we make decisions, we got a lot of committees. We’re building the plane a little bit as we’re flying, and it only makes sense to get young people in to be part of that decision-making and help structure it up, what Gellung Waarl looks like into the future.

Charles: And Tarni, what do you see by way of getting young people so excited that they actually recognise the value and need to enroll in the Aboriginal Electoral Roll? Because Levi mentioned first up, it was a very, very small number of people who signed up to the roll when Auntie Jill Gallagher was the Victorian Treaty Advancement Commissioner, and I think at the last elections, we had around about 10,000 who enrolled. Still a long way to go. Youth is a huge cohort. What are your huge calls out to youth right now to get them enrolled and feel more even a part of the process?

Tarni: I think, in particular, one of the things that I’ve been saying since being elected is that I am one of the two only youth in the youth bracket that were elected this body, and we’re both from the South West.

Charles: Yeah.

Tarni: And so we have five regions, and my ultimate goal is increasing enrollment numbers, but of course, of course. But I think a key to that is young people seeing themselves in the body. So, I say at the end of this, I’m aged out of the youth bracket at the end of my term. (Laughter)

So, who’s going to be there to step in? What are we doing to get our community ready, so then they feel confident enough to put their hand up and run in the next election? And then, hopefully, what I see from that is that more young people will vote, because they see themselves in the candidates, they see themselves in this body, and I’m hoping that having the formal guidance of a formal youth voice will also help see that they’re valued in this space.

Charles: Do you see that there may be, and I recognise this is still the developmental stage of the youth voice—we’ll just call it for the heck of it at this stage—but do you see that there could be a formalised youth voice, just as what we saw with the elders? Almost a standing committee of young people?

Tarni: For sure. I think that is our hope and to have that formal recognition of that, their knowledge and experience matters, just like our old people, but for the young people too.

Charles: Levi?

Levi: Well, we’ve heard it from young people, they want to be part of decision-making. And that that’s been part of the feedback when we’ve consulted with community, so it’s up to us to make that happen. What that looks like will be a bit to work through, but, you know, with the elders standing group, that is a standing group at the moment, it’s not, you know, there’s still a little bit of work to do there, and we’ve learned a lot from how that’s worked and what that’s looked like. And I think it’s really exciting because once we get some formalised structures happening, to see how the youth and the elders’ voice will work together will be something that will be really exciting as well. That’s something that we hear from young people: they want to be learning from their old people, elders, and leadership, people in leadership positions. So, I’m really excited about that.

But in terms of growing it, I think it’s really on us as an Assembly to provide opportunity, open the doors, bring people in so they can see what it is that we’re actually doing and how we’re advocating for them. But it’s also about what the outcomes are that we’re going to achieve. And when young people see that we’re advocating in the right ways and we’re getting the outcomes that are going to impact their lives positively, that’ll just continue to grow the support and get people really excited about what they’re seeing in a Treaty space. 

And I’m excited about things like the Yoorrook recommendations and things that we achieve through the first Treaty around the school curriculum, getting truth-telling into the curriculum. So, these are things that I think young people want to see. This is going to positively impact their environment when they’re going to schools and all sorts of stuff. So, I think it’ll grow. It’s going to be something that we just got to really commit to as a whole of an Assembly to bring people in.

Charles: I’m interested also, because we’re talking about a really dispersed group of people. And it’s interesting, Tarni, you’re representative from the South West, on Gunditjmara country. Levi, North East, up on Yorta Yorta country. So, you’re both regional representatives. So, I’m sure you both recognise the real need to make sure that young people in the regions—the far-flung regions that are really, let’s be frank, are often overlooked, not necessarily by the Assembly, but generally overlooked—what are some of the challenges and solutions that you see to bringing these young people from the regions in? Tarni, I’ll start with you.

Tarni: From the background of working in an engagement team as well, is that we’ve had a bit of an experience in trying to get people on board on Treaty. We’ve been trying to sell it. I was selling it for four and a half years before I became a member. (Laughter)

And the reality is, like, even in the South West, like youth from Ballarat are very different from the youth in Haywood.

Charles: Oh, yeah.

Tarni: And same in like the North West, Horsham kids are different from Bendigo or Mildura kids, or young people. And what they experience is very different. So, acknowledging that from the start, and I think also having the two past youth conveners as regional members as well—

Charles: Of course.

Tarni: —I think it’s embedded from the start recognising that young people, just because they’re South West young people or just because they’re North East young people, doesn’t mean that they all think collectively the same. And acknowledging that from the start and how we interact with them and how do we engage with them. Because things like youth programs aren’t exactly the same as what they were 10 years ago or 20 or 30 years ago. So, it’s not like you can just go like, “I’ll go to the ACCO in the youth group,” because they’re not all there. And as well as like in the schools and high schools, most young Aboriginal people in the regions could be one of five, if they’re that, at their school. So, they’re in there by themselves most of the time.

So, how do we get to them and make them not feel so alone and give them that voice and that collective sense of community as, “You’re a part of this bigger thing. Just because you’re in your small country town of Donald or Heywood or Echuca or wherever, you are a part of this bigger community, this bigger family.” And that kind of sense of kinship, I’m really big on the word “kinship.” I feel like it’s underutilised in our daily language.

Charles: That’s influenced a bit by your mother there, I think?

Tarni: A little bit! (Laughter) But the idea that you take care of your own. I have this quote that I quote of my pop often is, “If we don’t look after our own, then who will?” And I think hearing that from like a four-year-old and having that embedded in, that we look after our mob. Because if we don’t look after our mob and prioritise our mob, then in the past we’ve seen that it won’t get done. So, we have to prioritise our young people’s voice, because the mainstream aren’t prioritising them.

Charles: Levi, you’ve been busy noting down some points there, so I’m just going to pass straight to you, brother.

Levi: Yeah, I was just thinking about, you know, the regional aspect. And I touched on earlier that there’s a lot of our young people that are ready to lead. So, I’ve absolutely got no doubts in me that we need to provide opportunity within the Assembly to really harness that leadership that we have in our youth category. But make no mistake, there’s a lot of our young people that are struggling as well. And that can be really challenging in, you know, how we engage with young people, because let’s face it, a lot of them are out there struggling and trying to navigate through a society that’s really tough for them and face challenges that a lot of our old people went through.

So, it is really difficult. We need to find a way to give those that are really active in this space in leadership and develop and really build them up, but also how do we engage the ones that are disengaged and having a tough time? And that is a challenge, but this is where it’s an all-of-community approach, and you see the great work that a lot of our ACCOs do in providing youth hubs and supporting our youth and kids in out-of-home care, all that sort of stuff. So, there’s definitely areas that we want to focus on, different pockets of community. But essentially, it’s not easy, but we need to provide opportunities for all pockets of our community.

Charles: Well, let me finish up by asking you both the same question, and Levi, I’ll stay with you. If a young person is listening to this right now and wants to get involved, have their voice heard in the Treaty process, what’s the best step for them to take?

Levi: Absolutely reach out. We are always open to having a yarn, Tarni and I, but I’d also encourage young people to reach out to your local rep as well, whether it’s a Traditional Owner group representative or your general member. We are absolutely committed to bringing young people into this space. 

Keep an eye out for updates. There are opportunities in the Assembly, even with work and young people that are 18 and older. It’s been proven to be a great pathway, a lot of staff members now that have become Assembly members.

There are different ideas we want to get young people part of the team and helping out, whether it’s out helping with pop-up stalls out in the region, learning about Treaty. We’ve got, yeah, some big ideas coming up with our First Peoples’ Institute that we want to develop out and what that looks like for young people coming in and actually getting into the nitty-gritty about learning about Treaty and what it means for our communities. So, there’s so many exciting opportunities and, yeah, really just get involved, reach out. Always happy to yarn.

Charles: Tarni, last word from you.

Tarni: I think just echoing on from what Levi said, but also touching on this new exciting part which we haven’t really touched on, which is Traditional Owner treaties.

And from the moment I was 18, I was getting dragged along to Eastern Maar meetings, and you just get a wealth of knowledge. Like, if you’re a young person that’s a Victorian TO, I just recommend getting involved in listening in, because your TO group will be getting ready to start negotiating their Traditional Owner treaty. So, even getting in at that local level on what happens on your Country in your localised treaty, just going and listening and getting that wealth of knowledge in that space as well.

Charles: Tarni Morris, Levi Power, thanks both for your time.

 

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